So last night I had a few people over to play in my mini arcade. We got into a heated discussion about video game pinball, virtual pinball and traditional pinball.Before I give my stance (which was torn apart last night by my friends) I want everyone to know I LOVE pinball. The type of pins I enjoy the most are 60's and 70's EM games however, I own several different types.So last night in the middle of talking about our favorite games I told my buddies I was saving for a Virtual Pinball Machine, after my friend spit his drink from his mouth he told me he will never sell me another game because I will defile my arcade room with this electronic monster.
I tried to explain that my boy's (8 and 10) would enjoy the variety it offers (You can load up to 250 games), and allow our family to play games like, and without breaking the bank.I was ridiculed for about an hour about how I disgraced the pinball gods, a REAL pinball game in 100% random, how pinball is dying with the younger generation and machines like this are the cause and how a LCD screen is NOT a pinball machine no matter what cabinet you put it into.My question, is a virtual machine really that bad? I was looking for a cost effective way for my kids to play more great games with a traditional look and feel. There are few arcades where I live that carry pins, and buying DMD pins is expensive (I just bought one).All in all I think a virtual machine is a good idea, the play is fun not like a traditional pin but still fun, the game selection you can upload is awesome and it fits well in our arcade theme.Am I way out in left field here? Do other agree?
I don't have one of those large virtual tables, but I do have 1 real pin and a MAME machine with 100's of virtual pins loaded.The MAME was what got me back into pinball, (I'm coming clean here, folks), so if it wasn't for the virtual tables, I probably would never have even considered buying the real thing. And, I intend to add other real pinballs in the future.The real pins are the best, IMO, but I like them both. The virtual tables allow me to play pins I would probably never get to play (such as ) and they let me find which ones I like the best. Then I go buy the real thing.In the meantime, I have 100's more free virtual tables in one game. No, it's not same as the real deal, but they are fun. Besides, if I download one I don't like, I just delete it.Then I step to the left and play a real pinball! I got into pinball recently because of hyperpin/visualpinball/futurepin.
I have purchased the pc, tv's/monitors to build one actually. I had it setup to test on my desk and I can load any table available and if you have HDD space you can put every game ever created (except newer ones that arent made yet) and flip through and play between them with a few clicks. I even have a motion sensing controller to mount in the cabinet for nudge (analog nudging ), real flipper buttons and analog plunger control. Luckily visualpin uses vpmame which is the actual rom from the pin game, BUT it still does not play like a real pin machine. It is pretty darn good, but real pins still have a look and feel that you will not and can not emulate.
Like when a ball falls off a ramp or jumps over your flipper from some freak flip.For instance,. Favorite game. I found it in vpin and played the crap out of it. Catapult is hard to get in and some other things. But I played a real one this pas weekend.
Felt totally different. Catapult was easy to get into, ball was all over.IMO, why not both? I can't afford every pin machine. Specially a or at this point in my life. I want to own them sometime yes, but for now I was going to make my hyperpin cabinet and I'm also going to buy a cheaper DMD pin for around $1k to get my real pin addiction under control So for me, both is great.
I actually play games on VP to see if I even like them before emailing/calling a seller. Will it defile your collection? Your friends are maybe too purists OR they've never played a GOOD virtual pin setup.A good virtual setup, has knockers, shakers, analog plunger and nudge sensing, lights, and the tv is at the same angle/level as a real play field.
Some you cant even tell its fake.Check this guys build out. His first build and this build are what really sparked me to go nuts and make mine as realistic as I can.video walk around. Virtual pinball is a great concept, however the physics are still a bit lacking.
It won't take them too much longer though. I hope to see a decent playing 'virtual' machine by 2013. The uptick is, you can build it as big or as small as you want (ala chocky's problem), so fitting it into somewhere tight- where a normal machine wouldn't possibly go is always an attractive solution. Plus it is a great springboard/tool to help you decide on some REAL sleeper machine that you hadn't thought of purchasing in the first place.Plus- as emo stated,They might just get the bug to go out and play the real thing to see what they are missing.Is anyone on here going to build a 'Virtual Hercules' with one of those new 108' TVs???That, would be EPIC!!!! Ya some people sell them from $5-8k. Which is a little much unless it is 46' led quality tv PF and full setup for pc, nudge, lighting etc. I've spent $1k so far on 3 tv/monitors, 42' led PF 1080p, 32' GB 720p, 17' lcd for DMD.
And $1k on pc, 2500k i5 with SSD hdd, ram and huge video card. So I figure I'll drop another $500-$1k on wood, legs, plunger, buttons etc. You can spend whatever you want though.
Like until thats finished, I play on my laptop. Software is all free, so its just hardware costs. You can also buy premade cabinets, reuse a real pin cabinet, or make your own.
For a serious pinhead it probably cannot be your only pin. A real pin is just that, authentic and amazing. But a virtual one will compliment a collection nicely and satisfy your need of buying a pin you can't afford or just want to try. I have a local dealer that is selling them with a design of your choice on the cabinet. They will preload 25 games and have options for game storage of up to 250+. The cost is $4199.99, which is less than a new Stern from Best Buy. I think the price is fair since I don't carry the expertise of building one myself.$4k?!
I understand there is labor, but wow. Like I said the software is free, so you can have 1 to over 1000 tables, you just have to download them from the visual pin website.
The hardest part of the build, imo, is configuring the pc and monitors to show the table, dmd and rom properly. I mean if when I finish mine and its very well done, I could see charging $4k. But EVERY premade cabinet I've seen for sale, has had a crappy pc in it and the plunger/nudge functionality is meh. So if you dont want to build or configure anything, sure I can see it being a deal. But watch out for what you get.OH and you can also connect the coin door to make it fully functional.which would be fun when your friends come over hahha.gotta have quarters to enter this house:-p. OH and you can also connect the coin door to make it fully functional.which would be fun when your friends come over hahha.gotta have quarters to enter this houseso in that case, that's what places need out on route. A machine that can't break or get dirty by every little thing.
If this picked up in popularity, it would make emulation better and effectively kill pinball except for us entheusiasts. At the same time, that's the way everything is going. People don't need real things. From vinyl to cd's to mp3's, vhs to dvd to netflix instant.Pinball to full size virtual pinball. It just makes sense in it's own depressing way.
People make the mistake of comparing a virtual pinball with a real one. NOT THE SAME.
That is not necessarily a bad thing.A virtual pinball is a GREAT video game, but is NOT a pinball. Just like a blow-up doll is not a real girlfriend no matter how lifelike it looks. (Even with a nag chip enabled.)I realize it is heresy, but a gameroom can have other fun things in it besides just pinball machines. Jukeboxes, video machines, virtual pins, diversify your collection and give visitors a different option for entertainment. The physics are WAY offI'm confused how people making more machines like this and continuing to use software of this sort won't improve the software eventually.Atari Video Pinball didn't have the best physics, but comparitively, Williams hall of fame is quite good (not perfect) with physics. If people are still demanding the video game, the physics will get better as time goes on, and those with the cabs are able to update the software I assume, they are just computers that can connect to the net right?On that same note, the flatness of the graphics could be improved on already.
Williams hall of fame came out for the Nintendo 3ds. 3d effects without glasses. That's where we're going.I may be holding off long enough to get the hologram table with touchscreen controls though. My income isn't near what some people on here have.
I'm having one built right now. Includes a top of the line 42 LED playfield in a widebody cab (plus two other quality monitors), a nearly top of the line PC, a lighting system (3 RGB and two flasher strobes), and a force feedback package (shaker motor and 8 contractors tied to flippers, bumpers, and slingshots). I came to pinball by way of video games, so I don't have the strong preference for the real machine feel that others do. Still, I spend about 25 dollars a month pumping quarters into local machines.I think claims that they play nothing like the real thing are overblown.
Much of it depends on the table author. I play the VP versions and real versions of, LotR, and regularly and the skills and strategies I develop from one mostly map to the other. In terms of appearance, they look similar (except for the true 3D of course ). In terms of sound, they are exactly the same. I would say that I get the expected reactions in the VP versions in terms of behavior about 75% of the time. It's overall just less variable and therefore easier, though there is significant variation in ball reactions. The modeling has only gotten better over time and will continue to do so.
May not be exactly the same as a real machine, but still fun.If you don't dig it, that's fine. But to call the virtual cabinets abominations or affronts to real pinball is ridiculous and disrespectful of the massive amount of skill and ingenuity that has gone into getting the virtual hobby to this point. What's more, people don't realize that the virtual hobby can lead to the purchase of real machines and the support of an industry that otherwise wouldn't be there. I plan to purchase my first machine, a recently produced new in box one, next year (assuming my wife gets the job she's eyeing up!).
If I couldn't play all the classics in VP, I might otherwise spend all my money trying to acquire machines produced by long defunct companies, which I don't really think is the best way to keep this thing going. I've done just as well on in real life. I've also had my arse handed to me. I've done better on in real life, but on both I only GOT to the genie, I didn't BEAT the genie.I've crashed taxi on williams, that never happened on the real pin for me.I'm really on my soapbox for technology lately, but I do have a real pin and want more of them. My ideas just delegate real machines to collectors and making cheaper technology for the vendors.
Unfortunately while driving up the prices on real machines I would assume. Arcade games aren't doing exactly well out in the wild either. And those with the cabs are able to update the software I assume, they are just computers that can connect to the net rightYes, they are high end computers. I don't hook mine up to the net., but yes I do update software all the time. I add tables, install new software, etc.
Through the USB.Internet capable, but to keep resource usage low, no Virus software, no Firewall, No auto-update Software - period. I don't really update windows, since most of the time, they are virus patches, that will only use resources, and I don't have to worry about viruses, if I stay offlin. This means: keep it offline, and stay safe.For an example of table install, was released today. Which site is doing it? Jack's, Noah's, or Local to you Person?Sounds like you are doing widebody, with the 42' inside the cabinet.Not local to me. It's one of the more prolific builders on the VP and Hyperpin forums. Yes, it is a widebody with the 42 recessed.
Noah's pins look great though. I also spoke to Jack when I was shopping around. What a great guy. He gave me plenty of advice even after it was clear I wasn't going to buy from him.I do want to build one, but am not very skilled at woodworking or electrical.
I wanted something that looked and played great so I could enjoy it now. I will learn from it for sure when working out my first build (which will most likely be a minipin with none of the extras as an eventual gift for a friend).
I'm a fairly active membe of vpforums. They have advanced visual pinball a lot simply within version 9. Now supporting active backglasses. Animated backglasses via the b2s module.For stunning recreations keep an eye out for any table by jpsalas and groin (megapin).
Also look for the amazing recreation of Triple Strike by Rawd.Not to mention that there are some amazing originals. Notably the Beatles by Bob5450 and Beat This (one of my favorite tables bar none) which was a team project for a competition. It's pretty easy to set up for the standard view. Of you want 90 degree rotated tables prepare for some work.
I'm afraid I find Visual Pinball too inaccessible to even download or install, which is a shame, because I sometimes encounter references to VP and wish I could play it too.Now, I'm not an idiot but I like things to be simple. Future Pinball was easy to run because it was one easy Windows installer file on the front page of the Future Pinball website.
But Visual Pinball? I went to VPForums.org and I'm afraid I don't know where to start.
It's too complicated. VP Installer? VPinMAME 2.4?
I'm sure the website tries to make it as user-friendly as possible, but it's still too much for me.I'm not asking for guidance, because quite honestly I won't spend this much time learning how to make pinball tables appear on my screen please. That's what makes The Pinball Arcade so convenient - for 800 MS Points all I had to do was click 'A' on my Xbox 360 controller a few times and I had a great pinball game up and running. That's convenience.But occasionally, whenever I'm browsing pinball stuff on the internet and I run into references to Visual Pinball, I whistfully wish that someone could just give me a DVD-ROM with all the installer files I need, the 20 most popular tables that work with those installer files, and an idiot's guide TXT saying: 'Click on this, then this, then this.' SqueakyG,The only problem with the DVD idea is that the program is updated quite frequently.
Future Pinball Download
I agree though, it is quite a pain to set up. Not too too bad if you only plan on playing the tables in regular 4:3 landscape mode, but if you want to set up more of a pincab configuration, it's special pinmame.dll and hyperpin and 'database' files and table images, wheel images, configuring b2s, etc, etc.Personally, once it's set up, it is quite accessible, especially with Hyperpin. I think of it the same way i think about linux in terms of getting out of it what you put in.
Except i hate linux (no you won't convince me otherwise and i know what i is capable of) and i love VP.Future pinball is incredibly simple to set up but with the exception of a scant few tables put together by some of the more talented authors and a few of the originals since i don't hold them to any expectations, i really can't feel it the way i do VP. Even VP drives me nuts in some ways.If you want to play full screen, VP is the way to go. VPForums doesn't offer DVDs, but they have a step by step guide on how to install everything and get it up and running, as well as download packages that give you what you need in a handful of downloads.
Basically you need:1. Visual Pinball program2. Pinmame, which resides in the VP folder, and once it's installed, you don't have to mess with it anymore.3. Front End - optional, but I'd highly recommend using one. VP-Man is the most popular.It took me a little while to figure out how to set it up on my own, and there are still things I can't get it to do, like switching between VP 8 and 9, but with the tutorials and message board (who respond to questions quickly), you should have it up and running in no time!
I joined vp forum superballs! I became a silver member to help out the effort. There is no doubt in my mind that I am buying, not making, a vp table. I have decided to start saving now.Good to know I helped bring someone over. I should be easy to find as I have the same screen name. Did you get to keep RetroBlast?I'll be making one as soon as I can budget it again. But I'll be starting with a pretty simple, smaller table-top cab maybe a 24' playfield and a 17' backglass.Until then, i just play with my laptop and a de-cased 22' monitor.
I'm using a 22' along with my 15.4' laptop monitor for the backglass. Though right now I'm only using 4:3 tables.I had some requests on my youtube channel to have a detailed 'how to' put up, since my video 'how to turn your laptop into a pinball table' is more of a 'yay i finally did it' demo so I just might get onto that.I wholeheartedly recommend checking out 2 tables. Beat This which was a group project and The Beatles, both can be found by looking under the vp 9 originals. Beatles is by Bob5354 and is one of the most amazing tables I've ever played.
Nice EM style with features that would need newer SS technology (as in the ability to store mp3 quality song samples and stuff). I would love to see table manufacturers make tables like this, even as budget releases for home pin fans.Here's a vid I made of myself playing Eight Ball Deluxe on my little setup (one handed of course and it's really quiet).
But note the active backglass and all the little details. I downloaded it again after being away from it for a few years.
I now remember why I stopped playing.Loaded up Addams Family. For some reason, it's worse than it was back then. Some of the graphics are messed up and pixelated. Searches seem to indicate you need a graphics card with a gig of RAM to handle transparencies correctly, but some of the stuff isn't transparent. Right side of the bookcase doesn't register hits (this was mentioned on the forum years ago) and when Thing grabs the ball and Gomez yells at him 'No, no, no!'
And Thing is supposed to put the ball back, it doesn't. Doesn't look like there's been any updates since 2009. Plays ok, but I think the small side flippers have issues too, but that's my opinion. It all seems odd since I thought it played and looked fine years ago on an older computer.Loaded up Junkyard. Alley doesn't work most of the time and the sound is messed up. ROM sounds are way too quiet, but I can't turn up the volume as the table sounds are way too loud. I saw someone was working on redoing it and it looked to be about 90% done based on the shots he was sharing and looked to be amazing, but then he just up and disappears and hasn't been seen since.I love what it stands for, but just seems to fall short too often.
I'll keep digging, but it just makes me want Farsight to get more of the better tables into TPA. I downloaded it again after being away from it for a few years.
I now remember why I stopped playing.Loaded up Addams Family. For some reason, it's worse than it was back then. Some of the graphics are messed up and pixelated.ROM sounds are way too quiet, but I can't turn up the volume as the table sounds are way too loud. I've just gotten back into VP after a few years myself. The setup is such a pain that it's taken a few years for me to get around to installing it when I got a new PC.
Now I'm very glad that I've taken the time to do it, but it took a little tweaking to get it playable.I had the same sort of graphics issues and fixed most of them by changing some settings in Visual Pinball. Go into Preferences - Video Settings and make sure the box that reads Hardware Device Rendering is checked. While I was there I also boosted the resolution to 1600x1024x32. It runs great on my so-so gtx460 video card and the tables look way better.Rom volume has to be adjusted in each game. Almost all the tables I've tried were so quiet they were unplayable. For most tables 8 and 9 seem to adjust volume, sometimes you have to press End first to 'open the coin door' and access the volume controls. Also if you're getting no ROM sound at all, the left and right arrow keys adjust PinMame volume as well.
If that doesn't work for you to an Exel spreadsheet with links to various table specific tutorials, including volume controls.Most of the tables I've downloaded were made to play on a 4:3 display. I've got a 16:10 widescreen monitor so I've had to adjust each individual table to get the proper aspect ratio. In case that's an issue for you as well.I can't help with the table specific gameplay problems you've had but I can tell you that my own two favourite tables, Fish Tales and Medieval Madness both look and play great.Good luck. I've just gotten back into VP after a few years myself. The setup is such a pain that it's taken a few years for me to get around to installing it when I got a new PC. Now I'm very glad that I've taken the time to do it, but it took a little tweaking to get it playable.I had the same sort of graphics issues and fixed most of them by changing some settings in Visual Pinball.
Go into Preferences - Video Settings and make sure the box that reads Hardware Device Rendering is checked. While I was there I also boosted the resolution to 1600x1024x32. It runs great on my so-so gtx460 video card and the tables look way better.Rom volume has to be adjusted in each game. Almost all the tables I've tried were so quiet they were unplayable. For most tables 8 and 9 seem to adjust volume, sometimes you have to press End first to 'open the coin door' and access the volume controls.
Also if you're getting no ROM sound at all, the left and right arrow keys adjust PinMame volume as well. If that doesn't work for you to an Exel spreadsheet with links to various table specific tutorials, including volume controls.Most of the tables I've downloaded were made to play on a 4:3 display. I've got a 16:10 widescreen monitor so I've had to adjust each individual table to get the proper aspect ratio. In case that's an issue for you as well.I can't help with the table specific gameplay problems you've had but I can tell you that my own two favourite tables, Fish Tales and Medieval Madness both look and play great.Good luck.Thanks for the suggestions. I had done some searching and had messed with the settings trying to find something that works, but nothing I tried fixed it.
But you mentioned resolution, and realized I think I just picked my current resolution and left it at that, 1280x1024x32. So I tried 16 instead and it seems to have fixed the graphic problems I had.Also, totally forgot about going into the table settings within the game. I kept looking for options for it in the editor. I'll mess with that next time I load up Junkyard. Rom volume has to be adjusted in each game.
Almost all the tables I've tried were so quiet they were unplayable. For most tables 8 and 9 seem to adjust volume, sometimes you have to press End first to 'open the coin door' and access the volume controls. Also if you're getting no ROM sound at all, the left and right arrow keys adjust PinMame volume as well. If that doesn't work for you to an Exel spreadsheet with links to various table specific tutorials, including volume controls.Hi There,I have the problem that I have no ROM sound at all.
The only sound I hear is when I insert the coins. After that - nothing. Sound on my computer is working just fine, all volume levels to 100%. I tried the arrow keys and also opened the coin door and tried 8 and 9, but it just doesn't work. Still no sound at all. What else can I do?Thanks for helping me!florigator.
Hi There,I have the problem that I have no ROM sound at all. The only sound I hear is when I insert the coins. After that - nothing. Sound on my computer is working just fine, all volume levels to 100%. I tried the arrow keys and also opened the coin door and tried 8 and 9, but it just doesn't work. Still no sound at all.
What else can I do?Thanks for helping me!florigatorWhich table is it? The 8 and 9, or END 8 and 9 does not work on all tables, especially older tables, and some cannot have the volume adjusted at all (such as Baywatch and other Sega tables released in the same era).
Check out VP Forums Volume adjustment guide (it's a sticky), which covers a majority of tables. Which table is it? The 8 and 9, or END 8 and 9 does not work on all tables, especially older tables, and some cannot have the volume adjusted at all (such as Baywatch and other Sega tables released in the same era). Check out VP Forums Volume adjustment guide (it's a sticky), which covers a majority of tables.Hi Richard,Actually it doesn't matter, which table I try, I have the same problem with all of them.
Let's take 'Fish Tales' for example. My only table that does actually a very weird noise when I start it, other than that I only have the sound of the coins. I can open the coin door and adjust the volume, but I just don't have no sound. Except sometimes that weird noise.
With other tables, there's only the coin sound and nothing else at all. Thanks Jeff,I asked Gord and he edited it for me. Relief!Richard, are you talking about the amazing HD version? I didn't see that released but i will have to look again.My favorite table on the site is Beat This, unfortunately available in 4:3 or WS but not full screen. It's an original by 4 of the members there and is very well put together.I haven't been at the VPForums for a while. However, I am greatly honored that people like playing Beat This as I was a part of the team that created it.
I helped the most during the initial planning stages making most of the drawings and concept tables before the VP wizards took over and made an absolutely fabulous table out of it. I had always been an FP guy, but what I saw that table become made me look at VP in a totally different way. Thanks a lot for playing the table because the process of making it was awesome.